Bauer 2024 - Shadow

[A.YOUNGoalie13]

1 hour ago, coopaloop1234 said:

On his G7 video I asked him how he's able to manage to fit into his 32 axis based off of his ATK and he replied in a pretty asshole-ish way as well.

Again, knowledgeable dude and tries to separate his biases from his review.

Just not a dude I'd ever have a beer with 

I would only ever want to have a beer with the great coopaloop, and my Bauer Shadows, just to stick it to hockey reviews!

[jerd31]

22 hours ago, A.YOUNGoalie13 said:

I use Shadows and love everything about them. I think like others have said he obsesses over unimportant little details that only matter to him and my biggest peeve is his skill level. Like others have mentioned, he is very confident that everything he says is correct. To me, him reviewing top end goalie gear would be like me reviewing pro golf clubs. I absolutely blow at golf and can’t do much more than a mini golf course, so my words on the clubs would be worthless to most even semi-experienced golfers. If you can’t play the position correctly and use the pads properly, in the correct techniques and so on, how can you properly evaluate their performance? I’ve seen clips of this guy playing, and I think I’ve seen more athletic 70 year olds at rinks by me.

Lol I watched his reviews for a bit, then watched his game footage and he is like a kid playing a video game that spams the same move over and over- in his case, butterfly sliding all over the ice for no apparent reason.  I swear, the dude would butterfly slide to the corner on a dump in.  

[coopaloop1234]

21 minutes ago, A.YOUNGoalie13 said:

I would only ever want to have a beer with the great coopaloop, and my Bauer Shadows, just to stick it to hockey reviews!

Well in 7 years when you're old enough to legally drink we can raise a glass. 

[seagoal]

I don't know, I'm not really buying the "don't trust gear reviews from a bad goalie" angle here.  That's buying into the idea that your skill level as a goalie directly correlates to your ability to review gear and that is just not true. 

I'm not saying he's great at reviews, but it doesn't track that he's not great at reviews because he's not a good goalie.  

There is very likely a div 8 beer league goalie out there who knows more about gear than some NHL goalies. 

[johncho]

26 minutes ago, seagoal said:

There is very likely a div 8 beer league goalie out there who knows more about gear than some NHL goalies. 

Yeah I mean we established that even great goalies like KK can't explain why he likes certain pads.

But also on the other hand, I think what I got from this is that the main issue is that he focusses almost obsessively on things that he values most which is the pad's ability to slide and rebound (I mean puck machines aren't cheap). He focusses on them because of the deficiencies in the way he plays; which is that he rarely gains his feet and prefers to slide around, and he doesn't control his rebounds as well as one should so he cares about hard rebounds. Again not a knock directly, I'm probably much worse.

Edited October 9 by johncho

[seagoal]

2 minutes ago, johncho said:

Yeah I mean we established that even great goalies like KK can't explain why he likes certain pads.

But also on the other hand, I think what I got from this is that the main issue is that he focusses almost obsessively on things that he values most which is the pad's ability to slide and rebound (I mean puck machines aren't cheap). He focusses on them because of the deficiencies in the way he plays; which is that he rarely gains his feet and prefers to slide around, and he doesn't control his rebounds as well as one should so he cares about hard rebounds. Again not a knock directly, I'm probably much worse.

Sure, I guess I can just reframe that as saying "trust this guy because he advocates for using gear that is complimentary to your personal game and benefits your style, and, that is a good thing."

[johncho]

So I think in the end, what I want to say is that it's easy to criticize and we do it too much (I just did it and I feel yucky). It's too easy, it's powerful and it sometimes feels good. He's criticizing equipment and we are criticizing his criticism. And in the end we haven't really created anything of value.

The hard part is that once it becomes something you're good at, you tend to stop creating and your tastes start to narrow. But in the end it was just a way of saying "they did things in a way I didn't like".

[seagoal]

19 minutes ago, johncho said:

So I think in the end, what I want to say is that it's easy to criticize and we do it too much (I just did it and I feel yucky). It's too easy, it's powerful and it sometimes feels good. He's criticizing equipment and we are criticizing his criticism. And in the end we haven't really created anything of value.

The hard part is that once it becomes something you're good at, you tend to stop creating and your tastes start to narrow. But in the end it was just a way of saying "they did things in a way I didn't like".

Absolutely,  very well said my friend. 

[Chenner29]

6 hours ago, seagoal said:

Yeah I generally like his reviews and what I really enjoy from him is his unboxing of his personal custom sets.  I really dig his enthusiasm and sincere giddyness about his new gear.

Where I check out with him--and I'm not saying this content should not be out there--is on his Instagram especially there's just too much "how to get dressed" or "how to pack your bag" or "how to get undressed" or "how to wear knee pads" type of content that is neither interesting nor useful for me, personally .  Again, that content should exist for newbies but for me, a not newbie, it's like meh.  

I want to learn about gear not what some dude does with his gear in the locker room. 

Oh, and on topic, love my Shadow set, no complaints, great decision to buy these. Yay. 

IIRC the dude was actually charging a “friendship fee” when he first started the persona to be virtual goalie friends with him and he’d help you make gear purchasing decisions.  Goalie OnlyFans. 

Fro what I’ve seen, half his online videos are about the “proper” way to do something - it suggests to me the dude has a severe case of OCD.  We could put 5 pro goalies and 5 beer leaguers into a room, and each of them would get dressed different, pack their bag different…etc from everyone else in that there.  

He made a post on GGSU that a fit 1 AB18Pro does not exist.  Contrary to that statement - I actually own one, posted as such in response, and he demanded I post pics as proof.  Like…no dude, I don’t owe some random stranger on the internet anything.  

Now that I think of it, he seems very much like Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons

[xmikex32]

Chris rubbed me the wrong way when anytime someone asks him a question he just responds watch the review, or go check out my video. He’s trying to get as much traffic to his stuff to monetize his channel. He can never answer a simple question.  

[Chenner29]

3 hours ago, johncho said:

Yeah I mean we established that even great goalies like KK can't explain why he likes certain pads.

But also on the other hand, I think what I got from this is that the main issue is that he focusses almost obsessively on things that he values most which is the pad's ability to slide and rebound (I mean puck machines aren't cheap). He focusses on them because of the deficiencies in the way he plays; which is that he rarely gains his feet and prefers to slide around, and he doesn't control his rebounds as well as one should so he cares about hard rebounds. Again not a knock directly, I'm probably much worse.

This is really insightful.

To me, it is also argumentative to @seagoal’s concept about skill level as it ties with reviews. 

If the person using the gear doesn’t know …how… to use it, why should anyone trust them?
If a pad SLIDES extremely well, but is cumbersome to skate around in, does that make it a good pad for the modern game?
If a pad REBOUNDS really well, but due to its shape happens to put pucks flat on the ice, is it a good pad for the modern game?
Etc. 

Also yes - puck machines aren’t cheap - but how often are you stopping a straight on shot with zero angle change from a static position that ends in a static save with zero release time off the stick blade?  I think his fixation on puck machine testing illustrates he simply doesn’t understand the position; you don’t see puck machines in goalie schools anymore for pretty much all those reasons above. 

[seagoal]

15 minutes ago, Chenner29 said:

This is really insightful.

To me, it is also argumentative to @seagoal’s concept about skill level as it ties with reviews. 

If the person using the gear doesn’t know …how… to use it, why should anyone trust them?
If a pad SLIDES extremely well, but is cumbersome to skate around in, does that make it a good pad for the modern game?
If a pad REBOUNDS really well, but due to its shape happens to put pucks flat on the ice, is it a good pad for the modern game?
Etc. 

Also yes - puck machines aren’t cheap - but how often are you stopping a straight on shot with zero angle change from a static position that ends in a static save with zero release time off the stick blade?  I think his fixation on puck machine testing illustrates he simply doesn’t understand the position; you don’t see puck machines in goalie schools anymore for pretty much all those reasons above. 

I get that, for sure. At the same time, having access to all gear across brands, having an opportunity to try on and play with all gear across all brands, being able to compare gear from brand to brand side by side, and having all that information/experience is very, very rare and very, very valuable.  The dude has this information/experience and that alone gives him an upper hand on gear knowledge that the majority of us can only dream about. 

Sure, he might suck, I might be a better goalie than he is, his obsession over puck cannons isn't practical, maybe he's biased towards what works for him if that's a knock, but these don't diminish his level of access to gear on and off the ice.  Taken for that alone I think he adds valuable content. 

To me the criticisms of him just summarize as : he shouldn't be a goalie coach.  And that is fair. 

Edited October 10 by seagoal

[Chenner29]

6 hours ago, seagoal said:

I get that, for sure. At the same time, having access to all gear across brands, having an opportunity to try on and play with all gear across all brands, being able to compare gear from brand to brand side by side, and having all that information/experience is very, very rare and very, very valuable.  The dude has this information/experience and that alone gives him an upper hand on gear knowledge that the majority of us can only dream about. 

Sure, he might suck, I might be a better goalie than he is, his obsession over puck cannons isn't practical, maybe he's biased towards what works for him if that's a knock, but these don't diminish his level of access to gear on and off the ice.  Taken for that alone I think he adds valuable content. 

To me the criticisms of him just summarize as : he shouldn't be a goalie coach.  And that is fair. 

Okay, let me ask this question another way.

If Vaughn put out a pad that was specifically designed for kick saves and straight shots, but the reviewer’s main critiques are “these don’t slide” and “my knees hurt when I butterfly” - is that objective or user error?  Should the product’s target audience trust the reviewer in that case?

If I was reviewing cars, had one week got to test drive a Honda Civic vs a Porsche 911, and ended up dismissing the Civic because it was slow and good on gas compared to the 4 wheeled rocket ship that is the Porsche, did I really “get the point” of why people should or would buy the Civic?  

Off the top of my head, he’s put up reviews where he goes on about how smart Vaughn’s index finger design is on the blocker because they removed air mesh on the thumb side of the index finger.  Or that Brian’s put out a pad that does not have binding cord in the boot channel closer to the sliding edge to help with wear and tear.  I have been playing this game for almost 18 years and none of these things have ever bothered me, caused me to give up a goal, caused my gear to prematurely break down, or in general have been a problem that needed fixing.

There’s plenty of people with limited access to gear on this board, who maybe review one set of gear every 4 years.  I respect the hell out of those authors and reviews because they are thoughtful and intelligent - they did research on what they want and didn’t want coming into the purchase, and the really good ones discuss how those choices influenced their decision.  

Access is cheap if you’re willing either to: A) network and schmooze or B) work 1 day a week in a hockey retail store.  IMO, “access” does not mean your opinion is more valuable than anyone else’s.  

I’d argue that “access” cheapens the review process - it becomes “I’m going to buy/demo this gear and review it for clicks and revenue” and with enough product volume devolves to “I need to standardize this process and talk about these 5 cookie cutter template items” instead of, “I have a limited budget, I care about how I play out there, and this is what I’m choosing to spend my money on because I can’t try everything.”  

[tgfoo]

Those of you with Shadow sticks, how have you found the durability of them? I had a Mach and I loved pretty much everything about it. However it broke down near the bottom of the paddle just about where it meets the blade. After talking to some other people I knew who had Machs and doing some looking online, it seems like a lot of people had their sticks break in the exact same place I did. 

I'm kind of interested in a Shadow or the new Protocol, but curious if that area has been reinforced or if anybody has had any other issues with the stick.

[A.YOUNGoalie13]

6 hours ago, Chenner29 said:

Okay, let me ask this question another way.

If Vaughn put out a pad that was specifically designed for kick saves and straight shots, but the reviewer’s main critiques are “these don’t slide” and “my knees hurt when I butterfly” - is that objective or user error?  Should the product’s target audience trust the reviewer in that case?

If I was reviewing cars, had one week got to test drive a Honda Civic vs a Porsche 911, and ended up dismissing the Civic because it was slow and good on gas compared to the 4 wheeled rocket ship that is the Porsche, did I really “get the point” of why people should or would buy the Civic?  

Off the top of my head, he’s put up reviews where he goes on about how smart Vaughn’s index finger design is on the blocker because they removed air mesh on the thumb side of the index finger.  Or that Brian’s put out a pad that does not have binding cord in the boot channel closer to the sliding edge to help with wear and tear.  I have been playing this game for almost 18 years and none of these things have ever bothered me, caused me to give up a goal, caused my gear to prematurely break down, or in general have been a problem that needed fixing.

There’s plenty of people with limited access to gear on this board, who maybe review one set of gear every 4 years.  I respect the hell out of those authors and reviews because they are thoughtful and intelligent - they did research on what they want and didn’t want coming into the purchase, and the really good ones discuss how those choices influenced their decision.  

Access is cheap if you’re willing either to: A) network and schmooze or B) work 1 day a week in a hockey retail store.  IMO, “access” does not mean your opinion is more valuable than anyone else’s.  

I’d argue that “access” cheapens the review process - it becomes “I’m going to buy/demo this gear and review it for clicks and revenue” and with enough product volume devolves to “I need to standardize this process and talk about these 5 cookie cutter template items” instead of, “I have a limited budget, I care about how I play out there, and this is what I’m choosing to spend my money on because I can’t try everything.”  

I think this is spot on. Part of why TGN's reviews are so good is because they're his specs, so you know he is truly reviewing the pads features and performance alone, because everything else about it he is already going to like. This is why myself, for example, wouldn't test a vaughn glove, or a super soft pad. They're not for me and I want my pads a certain way. Now if someone wants me to test out Brians in comparison to my shadows, I would want all my specs, and then I could honestly compare and evaluate the pad, as its just what I want but made by a different company with different technologies. Like wise old Chenner said, if you want a super car and test drive a Prius, chances are you'll dislike nearly everything about it.

[A.YOUNGoalie13]

1 hour ago, tgfoo said:

Those of you with Shadow sticks, how have you found the durability of them? I had a Mach and I loved pretty much everything about it. However it broke down near the bottom of the paddle just about where it meets the blade. After talking to some other people I knew who had Machs and doing some looking online, it seems like a lot of people had their sticks break in the exact same place I did. 

I'm kind of interested in a Shadow or the new Protocol, but curious if that area has been reinforced or if anybody has had any other issues with the stick.

I had 2 machs last me all of last season skating through 4 practices and 2-3 games a week. I got 3 shadows to start this year and I've been using 1 for practice, another for games, and 1 is shelved. The practice one is cracked on both sides of the paddle just under my blocker, and the game one has a faulty crack on the paddle closer to the blade from a shot in warmups that somehow hit the edge of the stick. I'm only a month or so into the season, maybe a bit longer. Safe to say the durability didn't exactly improve this go round.

[Smalls]

1 hour ago, tgfoo said:

Those of you with Shadow sticks, how have you found the durability of them?

Probably not going to be a ton of help but I'll chime in with my experience since I have 2 custom Shadow twigs that are only like 5 games old (so can't speak to a ton of durability). I skipped the mach because essentially I never break twigs in men's league. I end up usually selling my old ones and trying the new models way more than I ever break any. So I went from Ultrasonic to Shadow and everything feels like an upgrade to me initially. Taken a few hard shots of the leading edge of the paddle and it shows no sign of damage at all.

If I do the ol' stick tap on the ice to see how it sounds compared to my never used backup Shadow it sounds just like it. So far no issues here and part of the reason I stay with Bauer sticks for me is their durability. While I said my sticks never break, they used to break way more with Warrior but this was back when foam core was the norm.

My team changed colors so Ill be selling my red/black shadow sticks and I may try a True PX3 since they have green/black as a stock colorway. But the move to True is simply curiosity not because of anything else Bauer did wrong there.

[UCLALabrat]

15 hours ago, xmikex32 said:

Chris rubbed me the wrong way when anytime someone asks him a question he just responds watch the review, or go check out my video. He’s trying to get as much traffic to his stuff to monetize his channel. He can never answer a simple question.  

I got the same response on IG when he posted a video and I commented to the effect of wanting the full vid, not a clip. 

He was pretty sarcastic like "it's on youtube..."

 

Then post the fucking link dude, you would think you'd be better at driving traffic

[seagoal]

9 hours ago, Chenner29 said:

Okay, let me ask this question another way.

If Vaughn put out a pad that was specifically designed for kick saves and straight shots, but the reviewer’s main critiques are “these don’t slide” and “my knees hurt when I butterfly” - is that objective or user error?  Should the product’s target audience trust the reviewer in that case?

If I was reviewing cars, had one week got to test drive a Honda Civic vs a Porsche 911, and ended up dismissing the Civic because it was slow and good on gas compared to the 4 wheeled rocket ship that is the Porsche, did I really “get the point” of why people should or would buy the Civic?  

Off the top of my head, he’s put up reviews where he goes on about how smart Vaughn’s index finger design is on the blocker because they removed air mesh on the thumb side of the index finger.  Or that Brian’s put out a pad that does not have binding cord in the boot channel closer to the sliding edge to help with wear and tear.  I have been playing this game for almost 18 years and none of these things have ever bothered me, caused me to give up a goal, caused my gear to prematurely break down, or in general have been a problem that needed fixing.

There’s plenty of people with limited access to gear on this board, who maybe review one set of gear every 4 years.  I respect the hell out of those authors and reviews because they are thoughtful and intelligent - they did research on what they want and didn’t want coming into the purchase, and the really good ones discuss how those choices influenced their decision.  

Access is cheap if you’re willing either to: A) network and schmooze or B) work 1 day a week in a hockey retail store.  IMO, “access” does not mean your opinion is more valuable than anyone else’s.  

I’d argue that “access” cheapens the review process - it becomes “I’m going to buy/demo this gear and review it for clicks and revenue” and with enough product volume devolves to “I need to standardize this process and talk about these 5 cookie cutter template items” instead of, “I have a limited budget, I care about how I play out there, and this is what I’m choosing to spend my money on because I can’t try everything.”  

I completely get your perspective and I respect it.  Nothing really to say against it other than just maybe there's a misalignment over why I watch his content.

I don't watch him to allow his opinions or biases sway my decision making on gear purchases.  I honestly don't care much about "recommendations" so to speak.  For example, I would never not go to a restaurant because of a bad review because some random person's opinion means nothing to me. I've hung out on here for a long time and sure, I've been swayed by group concensus on things (TGN Pro Laces, for example).  But that's more akin to peer pressure than reviews/recommendations. 

The Hockey Reviews guy is not my peer so he's incapable of swaying me. 

But, he does have access to all the gear, he clearly enjoys talking about it and showing it (while getting free coffees from viewers) , and since I like looking at all the gear, I'm in.

I could watch him on mute and be just as happy with his content,  exact same value for me.

[tgfoo]

2 hours ago, Smalls said:

Probably not going to be a ton of help but I'll chime in with my experience since I have 2 custom Shadow twigs that are only like 5 games old (so can't speak to a ton of durability). I skipped the mach because essentially I never break twigs in men's league. I end up usually selling my old ones and trying the new models way more than I ever break any. So I went from Ultrasonic to Shadow and everything feels like an upgrade to me initially. Taken a few hard shots of the leading edge of the paddle and it shows no sign of damage at all.

If I do the ol' stick tap on the ice to see how it sounds compared to my never used backup Shadow it sounds just like it. So far no issues here and part of the reason I stay with Bauer sticks for me is their durability. While I said my sticks never break, they used to break way more with Warrior but this was back when foam core was the norm.

My team changed colors so Ill be selling my red/black shadow sticks and I may try a True PX3 since they have green/black as a stock colorway. But the move to True is simply curiosity not because of anything else Bauer did wrong there.

Yeah, I typically don't break sticks either, so I was a bit surprised by the crack in my Mach paddle. After doing a little bit more digging, it does seem like they have made efforts to address some of the paddle durability issues that the Mach had with the Shadow. Makes me feel a little bit better about potentially picking one up.

[TheGoalNet]

On 10/9/2024 at 10:29 AM, ilyazhito said:

That makes sense. How far and fast does Shadow send rebounds compared to similar pads for other manufacturers (Brian's Optik 3/4, Warrior G7, CCM Axis XF, True Hzrdous)?

Bauer is in a league of their own in this category.

Other rebounds can go far in distance, but they don't have the velocity that a Bauer does.

Why does this matter?

When a play is in a tight and their is a guy on the door step, the puck rockets off the Bauer and it can make it harder for a player in tight to handle the rebound.

With other brands, they might go all the way to the boards and be a big rebounds, but they don't have that same zip right off the pad. A player is more likely to be able to catch that rebound and bury it.

[TheGoalNet]

On 10/9/2024 at 10:50 AM, coopaloop1234 said:

Shadows definitely slide better than Machs. Feels similar if not a bit better than what my Ultrasonics were. Either that or my affair with my G7's skewed my memory of how my US' slid. 

The only real change to the strapping was the lower calf wrap attachment which is tighter than Mach. I feel like even at the loosest settings my Shadows feel tighter to my legs than Machs. 

Maybe it's a quality control issue then?

@maxtm30 and I are on the same boat that are Shadow strapping fits / bigger wider than our Machs.

Maybe they are all supposed to be the exact same and the sewing process is not repeatable? probably only takes 1-2" difference to be noticeable

[seagoal]

3 minutes ago, TheGoalNet said:

Bauer is in a league of their own in this category.

Other rebounds can go far in distance, but they don't have the velocity that a Bauer does.

Why does this matter?

When a play is in a tight and their is a guy on the door step, the puck rockets off the Bauer and it can make it harder for a player in tight to handle the rebound.

With other brands, they might go all the way to the boards and be a big rebounds, but they don't have that same zip right off the pad. A player is more likely to be able to catch that rebound and bury it.

The audible boom is so damn satisfying off Bauer pads too, damn. 

[coopaloop1234]

6 minutes ago, TheGoalNet said:

Maybe it's a quality control issue then?

@maxtm30 and I are on the same boat that are Shadow strapping fits / bigger wider than our Machs.

Maybe they are all supposed to be the exact same and the sewing process is not repeatable? probably only takes 1-2" difference to be noticeable

My experience with Mach was maybe 10 skates or so before going back to my Ultrasonics, so I'll take your guys' word for it. 

Reading through Max's comparison thread, he notes the following: 

Quote

Now the strapping, The tune fit + attachment points are higher than on Mach for the inner calf. The velcro tab on the outside is lower on Shadow.

I know that I strap my tune fit + to the lower part of the Velcro loop side as it provides a bit of a looser feel than when going higher up. 

If the Mach attachment loops are slightly higher than the Shadows, then by default it's going to sit on a beefier part of your leg and have a tighter feel. 

That's my best guess. 

 

 

[TheGoalNet]

32 minutes ago, coopaloop1234 said:

My experience with Mach was maybe 10 skates or so before going back to my Ultrasonics, so I'll take your guys' word for it. 

Reading through Max's comparison thread, he notes the following: 

I know that I strap my tune fit + to the lower part of the Velcro loop side as it provides a bit of a looser feel than when going higher up. 

If the Mach attachment loops are slightly higher than the Shadows, then by default it's going to sit on a beefier part of your leg and have a tighter feel. 

That's my best guess. 

 

 

haha, great, I am not nuts and it's not a quality control issue